You just do not comprehend Armenians, and the last 10 years of Armenian Realities.

I see clear uniformed people who judge based on 2-3 facts. For example, Who is good? Levon or Serge? Who did the worse, Serge or LEvon?
I clearly see that few people here comprehend the pressure the nation had on it. This pressure in real life, in economic life, in social life cannot continue. It will burst soon.

I see pattern that people deliberately or unconsciously bring the choice of the political leader as the single issue. This is not the single issue. The issue that people have, and the country has is much broader, and some people like JAILAMS and foreign-Armenians who do not live with Armenian life, who do not feel the pressure on the Armenian nation, cannot understand this.

Many times I brought the “Heritage” party’s factor. It seems nobody wants to discuss the position of this political party. There two reasons people do not discuss. 1. They do not know and do not understand the role of “Heritage” party. 2. Some bloggers deliberately avoid the “Heritage” party factor because they cannot bring any negative factor against this political party.

You will see that people will find solution

I am just trying to find the benefit from the horror that was sparked. I can’t hope that things will go back to the way they were, or worse, because of it. Something better must be created, or else I despair for Armenia. Thank you Aram for having given some examples of what that could be. I agree, LTP should stick around to show he’s in it for positive change in the long term. He can’t just swoop down from nowhere and take the presidency for himself in the way he likes to declare he has.

This said, I believe there can be some important benefits from the movement he started. Exercising democracy should be a consistent and continuos process, not just angry demonstrations in the opera square once every four years. And if he’s really the leader he claims to be, let him stick around, and let him, together with the opposition, find lawful ways of channeling the sentiment of the masses into a political capital. Then I’ll be the first to thank him.

Paul states: “Now of course Levon is doing this for his own self-indulgence as well, but will he really be as bad, after having been at the helm of a “people’s movement” for “democracy”?”

I guess that’s just a chance Armenia will have to take. It’s sick of having itself sold out to the (not even) highest bidder who then turns around and passes the proceedes to their friends and family. When you think about the average Armenia, and then look at Dodi Gago’s palace for example, and realize how it all came to him out of thin air off the backs of the Armenian people it should make one sick. Now of course Levon is doing this for his own self-indulgence as well, but will he really be as bad, after having been at the helm of a “people’s movement” for “democracy”? I am not saying he will be a great democrat, or that his but we have seen what the people can do and I highly doubt they will let him get away with what he did in 96. He should know what was seen on the street was not just in his name and the movement is beyond just one about him. I really doubt the Armenian people want to bring him into power to be f-cked by him instead of the Karabakhtsis and I am really hoping this is a sign that the populace reached the breaking point with those who take advantage of them and won’t stand for it, no matter who it is taking advantage.
I wish we had a better leader than Levon, I really do.. but does the fact that we have no one besides him either 1. is capable of challenging Serge / 2. is willing to challenge Serge. Does the fact that Levon is far from the perfect candidate and he’s doing it mainly for himself mean we let the authorities get a free pass and continue on with their business of raping the country? I guess this is taking a chance, which devil do you think is worse… but something has to change and I think at least changing up whose in power after 10 years will clamp down on their ability to completely consolidate power and take even more advantage of the place.

As for your point that “this is not about levon”: Actually, if levon were to hire a PR firm for his cause, they couldn’t come up with a better slogan. In my opinion, it’s all about levon! Maybe not for you, but certainly for him and his team pulling the strings behind the scenes. Sure, there are a large number of people who rally against the government rather than for levon, and sometimes even despite their dislike of him. But it does not change the fact that at the end of the day, if the revolution were to succeed (or maybe still is?), he and his cronies were going to be the biggest beneficiaries of it all. Or you think that grzo was financing the campaign out of his new-found love for justice and democracy?
Which brings up the question: what makes you think that the guys who fucked you 10-12 years ago, are not going to fuck you all over again?

Some try to be smart and find arguments, by criticizing both sides of this conflict.

This is not the way you should argue.

I will bring you very interesting observation that an old uneducated man told me yesterday. He says “It is very interesting that some people remember how they were fucked 10-12 years ago, but they do not want the recognize the fact that they are being fucked right now every second”.

So what is the conclusion. Those who remember 10-12 years old fuck, will remember today’s fuck after 10-12 years. So, guys this is a sign of retardness.

Now I think you will not be perfectionists, and will try to open your eyes. Armenian Nation is angry, and they do not tolerate this regime. This Regime is even able to orchestrate a war on the border to shift the attention of the people. This is the end.

If after all this you are going to be JAILAMS, or you are going to support this REGIME, there is no much to say you.

Some guys even try to represent themself the pioneers of the democracy, and do not like the way Armenians live. I read the Armen’s argument, and I totally agree that some people who saw the Western lif, they think the same is true for Armenia, and exactly the same should be in Armenia, so we could declare that we have democracy. At least we have to try to advance a little, before reaching to some point.

One guy here, the Onnik, told that he is going o belive only to international sources of information, but actually he follows the state information source and brings arguments based on the state information source.

If you are not going to believe in Armenian sources (whether Hailur, A1plus, Liberty Radio, or I think your favourite Armenia TV, AND YOUR OWN PEOPLE), I am wondering how you are going to believe to western sources. WESTERN journalism is the dream of ONNIK. Hey guy, I am straight, if you are not going to believe people around you you would better live Armenia, and do not live around Armenians. You are ven not a JAILAM as I thought, you are just blinded and selfish person, who does not want to believe to his own nation, and he is ready to believe in Western Journaist who are DESIGNED exactly for the people like you.

JUst some JAILAMS try to be smarter than they are, and the hypocracy prevails them.

To AH

You also read this posting, and try to understand what Armen tried to say. You also have to think twice before saying something, because whatever you are saying either is not factually proved or is very subjective.

My main points

1. This is not about the Levon. This is about the people and the REGIME.
2. There is no polarization in people. Even those who did not vote for Levon, now understand that this REGIME will do anything to keep their power.
3. I consider the “heritage” party NEUTRAL, and if you read their statements you will understand that what the people are thinking (both LEVON supporters, and NOT_SUPPORTERS).
4. Yesterday the REGIME even went after the Ombudsmen, who was Kocharian’s guy. First, I thought the Ombudsmen’s statement was an orchestrated and planned ste from the authorities, but later Kocharian really showed that it is not. Even the appointed ombudsmen could not tolerate all this LIE of state propacanda and could find a guts to raise his voice.

It is very hard to persuade some Blinded JAILAMS, who want to be fucked everyday rather than forget the 10-12 year fuck.

What I will say you. It is better go fuck yourself so, the REGIME will think that you are in their camp.

The world fuck, here has another meaning.

“The people” have not rallied around Levon. True, some (I would argue misguided, but that is not my point) have, but who is LTP to speak on behalf of the nation? He has not earned that regal title. This is not a “criminal regime vs the people” situation. Of course, it may become this, but mischaracterization based on lies and hate leads to polarization, blame game, and a lack of discourse among people who would like to see a better Armenia, Let me try and simplify it for you: Blaming Levon in significant part for bringing Armenia to this stage is not equivalent to exonerating the current authorities for their mistakes.

If you feel that the authorities are illegitimate, come to Armenia and participate in state-building. It is easy to wax poetic from Filly when there is a country here with a process (flawed, of course, but a process nevertheless) to improve the situation. And even though I imagine we would differ greatly on our opinion of how to get to a more prosperous and democratic state, I would be happy to see you here.

Levon Ter-Petrossian tried to turn Armenia into a failed state by appealing for defections from the military, KGB, police, Yerkrapah etc, but actually failed himself.

Personally, however, i think Ter-Petrossian wanted this to happen. In fact, he needed it.

elections started to be falsified under Ter-Petrossian, media outlets and political parties closed, human rights abuses and corruption encouraged, and when the foundations for today’s state were laid down.

As you say, it’s a failed state and everyone is to blame, but it took Ter-Petrossian’s language of hate to rip the country apart.

I do genuinely believe that all of Ter-Petrossian’s actions and speeches were geared up to prepare people for such a confrontation. Unfortunately for him, however, he lost.

The trouble is that he still plans more of the same, and the authorities are quite prepared to respond with force to any civil unrest on the streets as well.

One former corrupt and tyrannical ruler, Levon Ter-Petrossian, wants to come to power by any means at his disposal.

the one MAIN crime that Ter-Petrossian and his supporters like you are guilty of to an such an extent when you all come across as paranoid and almost schizophrenic

Ter-Petrossian and his team are the enemies of democracy and freedom of thought and speech.

When you accuse people of being in the pay of Serge or being an agent of whoever, it also shows you guys can’t base anything on facts. All you can do is spread slander and rumors. You make up the reality as you see it to justify your failures and hope that a few people with no sense of logic or reason will fall for it.

We all know that Kocharian and Sarkissian aren’t involved in bribery and corruption, right? It would be slander to say such things.

Levon managed better to control the minds of his minority, get away with avoiding dealing with his time of tyranny and corruption in power and spread so many lies that the police, KGB and army were on his side that they were willing to engage in clashes.

Incidentally, OSCE says that it believes that BOTH sides had guns. That would obviously explain why nearly as many policemen had bullet wounds as protesters.

Perhaps Onnik will deign to tell us what credible and not contradicted source he got this information from. This information misleads people into believing there was some kind of power parity between unarmed protesters and armed to the teeth police. It is upside-down logic that implies killing protesters means preventing “chaos” from happening.

Personally, I will only consider international news wires from named journalists on the grounds as well as the official press releases from international organizations such as UN, OSCE, EU, CE etc.

And it is that reliance on a wide variety of diverse official and unofficial, European and Asian, formal and informal, academic, journalistic, and lay sources that makes what you say so credible.

IWPR’s journalists are usually those from A1 Plus, a pro-LTP media outlet…same goes for EurasiaNet who uses Armenia Now reporters, some of which are very close to the Ter-Petrossian camp.

BTW: Might interest you all to know that on Sunday when foreign journalists went to LTP’s house for a press conference on the bloody events the night before, guess what the first hour consisted of? Sorrow and grief for those that died? Remorse? Regret? Anger? What?

Well, nothing. For the first hour Ter-Petrossian spoke about himself and showed journalists his books and diplomas. Only when he had finished that did he speak about the poor sods that laid down their lives for a leader who had misled them into thinking the police, KGB and army were on their side.

And he couldn’t even put them above his own ego even for just one hour.

Like all journalists know, it’s much better to write about important decisions that your subject has made when you have no clue about his background.

All you [Ter Petrossian supporters] do is spew hatred and division at every opportunity. All you can do is swear, curse and intimidate instead of engaging in discussion. All you can do is accuse and offend. Actually, your only tactic is to divide rather than unite.

And my personal favorite:

Two senior western journalists last night told me that LTP’s supporters remind them of a religious cult.

The funny thing about this statement is how Onnik feels compelled to tell us that the journalists are “western” journalists. One would think that in a world where it is common knowledge that “western journalist” means nothing more than cowed “stenographer of official sources,” (just like Onnik reminds us when he reveals his dependence on “official press releases” above), he would be much better off not mentioning their unimpressive cultural affiliation.

Ah, but stenographers sent to the frontiers of the Empire get to play intellectuals in front of the brown people, with a penetrating gaze that sees everything and misses nothing. And what does this penetrating gaze see when it is turned upon Ter Petrossian and his supporters? It sees cultists: They look at Ter Petrossian, and images of people like Jim Jones, David Koresh, and Charles Manson spring to mind! With brains like these, who needs Da Vinci?

But witness the depth of their elitism here. In Onnik’s mind, their western-ness provides them with the credential that verifies the claim that Ter Petrossian is a cultist, but in reality, that preposterous claim makes it quite obvious that the journalists don’t know what they are talking about. Fortunately, as stenographers, their patently absurd assessments stay within the xenophobic confines of private conversations held at the back of the bar, as they observe the darkies and Onnik, now the anthropologist, explains the “Armenian character.”

So it is that you’re much too civilized a person to understand why a brutalized people would do the unthinkable and resort to profanity to express their anger, Onnik. You’re much to refined to understand why the cab driver would try to squeeze a few more pennies out of his fare, why the store clerk would rebuff a westerner who takes the clerk’s position as servant for granted, why the garbage truck that doubles as a furniture delivery truck, or any other type of truck it needs to be, regularly fails to pick up the garbage at 10 AM Tuesday mornings.

You really don’t like Armenia and Armenians very much. Everything they do that is not done the way you think it should be done is another sign of their backwardness, and it torments you on a post by post basis. The… horror!

So here is a suggestion: Go back to what you are familiar with and what you feel comfortable with. No hard feelings. That way you’ll be free of Armenians, and Armenians will be free of you. If you choose to stay, however, I suggest you rethink your relationship with them. Restore to the people the dignity that belongs to them; consider whether your convictions aren’t the result of your subjective history and not objective, natural facts; and try to remove that distinctly orientalist strain that runs through your writings that you have inherited from the British Imperialism. It’s called empathy.

Otherwise, you are going to continue to feel tormented. Mind you, nobody’s going to do anything to you; you are going to do it to yourself, like you have been. Armenians don’t have to fit your standard of “normal” to feel like they are “normal.” They are going to keep being themselves. And if one day they decide to have a revolution, then a revolution they will have. And there isn’t a damn thing you can do about it.

You admit that you are not Armenian Citizen, and you talk on behalf of your son? When your son will grow up, he will speak on behalf of himself.

Personally, I think you do not have moral right to come here and criticize people. You can express your opinion about events, but you do not have any moral right to condemn people.

Whenever, I bring the argument that this struggle is between Armenian People and criminal regime, this NEUTRAL non-citizen JAILAMS bring the Levon’s factor, as if Levon did this Levon did that.

Forget Levon. This is not about LEVON. If Levon is assasinated in near future (I think highly probable), the nation will continue its struggle against the criminal Regime.

Onnik mentions that I am not in Armenia. I have wrote here that due to my job I am not in ARmenia temporarily. I will be in Armenia on March 11. Then what you are going to say?

Again those who do not represent Armenia as citizens they do not have moral right to critisze the people who stood up against REGIME.

You are all Armenians, you all have right to express your opinion about the events, but you do not have any moral and legal right to criticize the PEOPLE. It does not matter it is 80% of the people, or 20% of the people. You just are not in position to judge about them.

To me all objective neutral bloggers here (but in reality not NEUTRAL, because they keep critisizing Levon and Serge, no word about people), they are simple JAILAMS.

To my opinion those who support mass killings of protestors, they are TRAITORS. NO DOUBT about this. You can defend authorities, but not the KILLINGS.

Another observation, which is very clear indicator of the mood of the nation is the announcements of “Heritage” party. I will be very surprised if anybody here will consider Raffi Hovhannisyan, Anahit Bakhshyan, Zaruhi Postangyan as blind LEVON supporters, criminal protestors or criminal representatives of Levon Regime.

Read the announcement of Heritage party and you will see that who are the real NEUTRAL poeple. This guys are really neutral, but THEY SUPPORT PEOPLE.

It is true that they supported Levon, but they were not actively involved in the Rallies. The Heritage distanced them from Levon, but they see that what is going on and they express their opinion, which is the exact opinion of the people.

Go and talk to people of Armenia. I have done. I have talked to many public servants, as I said up to (deputy ministers), who undeniably think that this is not right way, to kill your own people, to supress them, and to limit the free media, to arrset all oppostion leaders.

These public servants hoped that they could change from inside the regime, but they confess that they cannot anymore.

Unfortunately, I cannot tel you names, but you can guess who are thiese public servants. Young professionals who were in the government posts within last 5-10 years.

AH said: Armen from Philly - Your post is so full of hypocrisy that I do not know where to start.

How about a substantive argument, one that isn’t all rhetoric and ad hominem attacks and zero logic.

AH said: I don’t know Philly Phanatic, why don’t you explain Levon selling electricity to Turks while Armenians froze to death 15 years ago?

Why? For the same reason that I don’t feel compelled to explain why pink elephants like to do back-flips. They don’t exist. But I’m sure that won’t stop you bouncing the lie off the walls of the echo chamber when you and the rest of the basterma boys go play revolutionaries at ARF camp, even as a real revolution is brewing in the motherland.

Apologists for Levon’s demagoguery in the name of “Serj and Rob are terrible rulers” don’t have much credibility. It is as if they finally found a target in the authorities that can be made to look bad enough to mask the anti-Armenian, anti-democratic and willful deceit of Levon.

In a political process like elections, you have to choose sides, there is no being neutral. And being neutral does not mean having own opinion, your “neutral” means being observer rather than participant in elections.

Secondly, taking the side of LTP, does not mean worshipping or liking him. For many it means against RK and SS. Again, in elections you have to take sides.

Lastly, I don’t appreciate your remarks about the citizens of Armenia leaving outside. This makes you a hypocrite.

And by the way, those who complain about cursing: cursing is the mildest form of insult.

If you had removed these sentences you would have been taken more seriously. That way your comment would have sounded mature.

> In twenty days they are going to come back with such
> an insurmountable force that neither Sarkissian’s
> legendary iron-clad stupidity, nor his yapping minions will able
> to stop them.

Pouring onto the streets and asking for re-election is non-sense it will only cause chaos and instability for the city (starting from the city to the country to the region).

> Ter Petrossian is not only not a corrupt, opportunistic puppet,

I don’t see anyone saying he is a ‘puppet’.

> he’s a statesman

I agree he is a good statesman (wish this skill of his would be used to unite us not divide us), he is an academic, somehow charismatic (to some) with his trademark cigarette-pipe, oh by the way his supporters can ask him to quite smoking, it’s not good for health , and also “lav imij chi himava ashkharoom”. Yushenko’s Orange ties (and scarves) were quite classy though!

“…anyone who spits on the dignity of the people in that way is a callous ingrate with the conscience of a cockroach, the intelligence of a potato, and the pride of a willing slave.”

I couldn’t better characterize Levon+Vano’s rule and attitude toward the Armenian people.

“…it’s clear that Ter Petrossian is not only not a corrupt, opportunistic puppet, he’s a statesman and inspiring leader of a caliber far beyond any in the region.”

I don’t have to add comments here - this is just funny.

“…what kind of person sells of his own people’s water, electricity, and a host of their other national resources to foreign millionaires…”

I don’t know Philly Phanatic, why don’t you explain Levon selling electricity to Turks while Armenians froze to death 15 years ago?

Cut through all the inane garbage spouted by bacteria-infested kamodo dragon lips, and it’s clear that Ter Petrossian is not only not a corrupt, opportunistic puppet, he’s a statesman and inspiring leader of a caliber far beyond any in the region. That’s a fact that was rubbed into the faces of Ter Petrossian’s detractors for TEN DAYS IN A ROW. And now that he has been placed under house arrest, they crawl out of their spider holes and spread the ridiculous lie that it was all Ter Petrossian’s fault. Was the ‘88 earthquake Ter Petrossian’s fault, too? Others try to spread the preposterous idea that, somehow, “we are ALL guilty.” Guilty of what? Demonstrating peacefully? Getting shot at? Demanding free and fair elections?

The Armenian people didn’t believe their lies before, and they are not going to believe their lies now. In twenty days they are going to come back with such an insurmountable force that neither Sarkissian’s legendary iron-clad stupidity, nor his yapping minions will able to stop them.

And let’s not forget that by their actions, the Armenian people rendered themselves and their neighbors yet another service: they showed that the OSCE is nothing but another tool in the hands of NATO, Inc., to legitimize governments that it likes and delegitimize those that it does not. NATO likes Kocharian and Sarkissian because corrupt stupid people are easy to control, and it doesn’t like Ter Petrossian because he will sell out the people and the future of their children the way Kocharian demonstrably has. If you doubt that about Kocharian, then ask yourself what kind of person sells of his own people’s water, electricity, and a host of their other national resources to foreign millionaires, and in exchange for loans that their kids will have to pay off.

Contrary to the idea that some oatmeal brains have sprouted, the Armenian people never have been ignorant nor apathetic throughout this whole Kocharian ordeal. Kocharian, Inc., however, has been every bit as ignorant, corrupt, and irresponsible as has been rumored. So much so, that it is a worrisome question today whether he or his mental midgets will try to reignite the Ardzakh war to gain political cover. Damn them to Hell if they do.